The team has spoken about ayahuasca for quite some time, now an expert on the subject comes into studio. Nathan Raaths gives you the rundown on what it’s all about, and how ayahuasca is very much not a recreational activity. A very insightful chat then takes an unexpected turn when a caller has a different line of questioning.

 

170517cliffcentral_gcs5

 

#GCS 17.5.17 Pt3

38 Comments

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  • Michelle Sing
    Reply

    He is not an expert, he is very lost individual with a drug habit who has destroyed many lives while running these ceremonies and should not ever be considered an expert in the matter. He is not Jungle trained, he is not endorsed by any valid plant community. Has has not been taught by a Sharman and has limited experience.

    There are many amazing and more worthy facilitators, who have the endorsement of a genuine Sharman and over 20 years of experience. He is not worthy of this sacred medicine and should be investigated with regard to his practices

    • Iggy Changoma
      Reply

      Absolutely!!!!! Doesn’t know the difference between wine and vine. This individual should be stopped. IV had personal experience with him and this fool has indeed caused allot of harm in the community. Just this year I have dealt with about 10 folk that has come from him that were so damaged. Apart from having next to no experience he drinks alcohol whilst serving????? It’s this kind of practice that will have the law frowning upon what is in actual fact a Very sacred practice.

      • Chantel Carter
        Reply

        Wow Iggy!!! Is that a reply from the vine within? I truly thought you were someone who actually got what the work is all about!!! This! I am truly disappointed. You don’t know Nathan. Be careful who the people are that you listen to. Surely you ve done enough work to know the illusions and agendas, or maybe not…. what a pity!

    • tomtom
      Reply

      I completely disagree. He has guided those close to me and I with love and care. He has had a profoundly positive impact on our lives and the communities that he has humbly touched. In my experience he has been a true servant to the sacred nature of the medicine. The fact that he has not been to a geographical area or has not had as much time doing ceremonies as others have been fortunate to is not a statement on the quality of his shamanic abilities. It is up to a shaman to guide not to do the impossible and overcome people’s processes for them. Bad experiences are due to the people themselves.”destroyed many lives’ is an ignorant statement in the field of this healing. Perhaps he has changed considerably since your last encounter as your description is beyond association of the Nathan I and so many others have experienced. Never doubt the power of the medicine it’s self, don’t put so much condemnation out to a messenger however he/she may threaten your ego.

      • BlaBlaBlackBird
        Reply

        I went for reconstructive surgery once. Then I did a whole bunch of research and read a lot of books and then got to sit in one time when the surgeon worked. Also I’m really good with a suture needle. So I really feel that I have gained enough experience to perform surgeries myself. The fact that I didn’t spend 12 years in medical school or do countless mock operations like some of the other surgeons is really not a statement of the quality of my surgical skills. When are you coming to me to fix your face?

    • Rocco Jarman
      Reply

      The current plant community have a vested interest in not validating someone as informed and focused as Nathan because he doesn’t value the outmoded superstitions. Nothing more.
      If Nathan is a lost individual, we should all be seeking to be lost. I’ve rarely met a more genuine and dedicated individual who brings less ego to his work.

      • I just cannot believe
        Reply

        Actually, most of the current plant community is not into tradition, so your point is moot. Funny you say that, since he offers “initiations” and all sorts of talks on subjects he never really got any training in. I suppose he channels his guides and that makes it ok.

        The truth is most of the plant community wont validate him because outside his little circle of yes men, that he always runs to for consolation when anyone criticizes him and the bypassing doesn’t cut it, people are aware that under his great show he is unqualified to work with powerful psycho actives, which could be construed as perception and opinion, however when you have a trail of damaged and broken people as he has, it kind of logically concludes he has no clue.

        just to counter the common bypass for this, the process of plants is a difficult one for sure, and people have a rough time, and one or two people may even spin out. But it is not nearly to the degree that it happens with nathan and one or two other self styled shaman/not shaman new age plant gurus. even more ridiculous is his inability to take any kind of critique on the matter. if you have a trail of broken people behind you its obviously not working. I suppose you dont even know about the trail, because anyone who speaks up is silenced pretty swiftly by him and his little inner circle…..

    • Ullanda Van Jaarsveld
      Reply

      Michelle…
      This man radiate pure light and he and his team hold space like no other. No ego, no bullshit. Why judge so easily? Have you actually done a ceremony with him to judge so harshly?

      • I just cannot believe
        Reply

        sounds like serious wishful thinking …. holds space like no other? how many people have you been to? all of them? you sound like a deluded cult member

      • BlaBlaBlackBird
        Reply

        Would you go to a heart surgeon (who happens to be a nice guy) with a bad reputation just so that you can give him a fair chance?

        I. THINK. NOT.

    • Andrea Salbego
      Reply

      Iggy how did you train to be a shaman? Did you go to the Amazon? How do we know a good shaman? Something that has always concerned me is that there seems to be a lot of disagreement amongst different shamans of who is legit

  • Callis Masureik
    Reply

    I agree with Michelle 100%. I have been working with plant medicine a good few years, been to the amazon and back and do not view Nathan as an expert, and somewhat far from it. His intentions may be good but i have heard too many people who came from him “ceremonies” worse off than what they went in. And this is typical of people handing out ayahuasca without proper training. Icaros, that wasnt even mentioned, are also a vital part of ayahuasca ceremonies, these healing songs are given through training and through your Maestro that you are training under.
    The facilitators that go into the jungle for 6 weeks for training are not the kind of the facilitators i would personally go too. The true shamans are those that train for years and years before facilitating on their own. There is so much more than just drinking the brew and banging on a drum and chanting

  • I just cannot believe
    Reply

    I’m going to be an “Asshole”, as Nathan described the caller, in his last FB post. I’m not replying to be an asshole. I comment now out of genuine concern for desperate people in search of help. As you can see, i’m not the only one that knows his short falls and is worried about the lives of others.

    I agree with the people commenting wholeheartedly. He is unfit to hold ceremony with this sacred plant medicine. And I’ve personally spoken to numerous people that have come out worse, doing “ceremony” with him. The fact that instant noodle “shamans” like him are free to practice, will endanger more lives. And on the point of “one of his family, that had prior issues” that commited suicide (well known in the plant community). If he was a responsible and trained facilitator, he would never have allowed her to do ceremony. But money is money, and that it generally what is the name of the game in the end.

    Any criticism he receives, he writes off with narcissistic, new age bypassing, then he turns to his flock of lemmings for re-affirmation. People like him, give the plant world a seriously bad name with their delusions and bad practice. It comes down to the way he bypasses criticism and responsibility.

    He drank Ayahuasca TWICE, before starting to hand it out to others. And freely “initiates” others to do the same, with not a lick of training and a few ceremonies under their belt. Spreading the ignorant psychonaughts, to harm the lives of others. Yes, the medicine will work, regardless. But it is everything leading up to, in and after ceremony that counts.

    I’m one that doesn’t care for “good intentions”. I care for what is right and safe. I do not want to see more people hurt by people like them. There is a reason shaman spend YEARS training, jungle or not, before handing out the vine. I type this out now, so people that aren’t in the know, can be warned. I know he won’t take a deep and honest look at himself, but then again, what flat earther would..

    • tomtom
      Reply

      Everybody is entitled to their own experience and opinion and although I disagree with yours, I respect it all the same. Many people come out of various healing practices worse off due to the nature of healing being a process itself. Healing does not end within a time frame or a single session or experience. Sometimes uncomfortable and unbearable things do occur and are bound to arise (or no healing can occur) during any form of vast insight into oneself but the blame and emphasis cannot be placed on the healer/guide themselves. The medicine is the medicine, the provider is not the medicine or the experience. The real influential force behind any suffering is due to oneself, not anybody else . That’s just my opinion.

      • BlaBlaBlackBird
        Reply

        Absolving all responsibility of the state of the client is cowardice. If that is the case, and the facilitator, as you are insinuating, plays little to no role, then you may as well order your medicine off the dark web and drink it on your own. But you wouldn’t, now would you. Yes, things can come up, shit happens within the process of healing. It is the responsibility of the facilitator to hold a safe space for this to happen, and to guide the process SAFELY. Think of it as flying in a plane. The pilot cannot stop turbulence, but it is damn well his job to navigate his passengers out safely. And to become a pilot requires years of fucking training. Not just a couple of hours in a simulator, and having been in the cockpit once. I don’t know how this could possibly be unclear.

          • I just cannot believe

            It makes perfect sense and is completely relevant to the argument at hand. The only thing I can think of, is that you’ve only ever been exposed to Nathan’s tainted version of Ayahuasca.

      • BlaBlaBlackBird
        Reply

        Yes, everyone is entitled to their own experience and opinion, including you. And I certainly hope that you don’t come off worse after going through the arse end of a ceremony of this fraud that you so valiantly defend.

      • I just cannot believe
        Reply

        Your opinion is tainted with bias and ignorance, that you’ve learnt from an ignorant and delusional server. As @iggychangoma:disqus mentioned and I have experienced first hand about people coming out worse and needing help after his ceremonies. He has the same bullshit excuse that “it is up to the individual” and he takes no responsibility. I can tell you the trained, competent shamans I’ve worked with, not once, have I seen someone come out broken or damaged from their ceremonies, NOT ONCE. Struggling to integrate, sure, but never broken like from his ceremonies. That is where a true shaman comes in, and helps them with the integration. Too bad he didn’t have the training, skill set or ability to do that, maybe Wendy might still be alive today.

  • John
    Reply

    I know we live in a relativistic world where everyone is entitled to their opinion and no-one has the right to be offended, however, lets not throw the baby out with the bathwater. Just because Aya isn’t administered in the hospital by a doctor doesn’t mean you should go to the crack dealer down the street. So ok, lets break this down.

    Nathn is well known in Cape Town, and he has a bad reputation among those curating and watching over people in the psychotropic alembic. If you have money, regardless of your psychological state and without interview, you are in. No regard to your mental or physical or spiritual health. Now he will say that’s because its “totally safe” and yet in this very interview you see one of his “patients” commit suicide. What an idiot. This is how blindly he pretends to believe his own nonsense. And lets not forget, there are several cases of him documented in Cape Town leaving broken and shattered individuals, albeit a little lighter in their wallets.

    Secondly, just because he doesn’t subscribe to the centuries old traditions of actual shamanism, doesn’t mean there is no standard. He pretends there is no standard because he is either completely ignorant of it or completely fails to meet it. Both are true. The truth is the shaman performs a whole heap of things which he is ignorant of, most especially guiding you on a physical and spiritual level (of which he is incapable of in either case), and rescuing your ass if you go to extremely bad places. This takes place before, during an actual screening, during ceremony, and post-ceremony. Guess which of these Nath does? Right.

    I know people are gagga over the power of Aya even if administered by the worst caricature one could imagine, but kids, get your drugs from someone who cares about you, at the very least. Not some meat-head poser pretending to have a calling for something other than your wallet.

    He fails to fit the bill of healer or shaman, why pretend he’s even trying to be either than a lost kid trying to find his own meaning on Facebook through a hundred likes for his “ceremony”. Shut, him, down.

  • BlaBlaBlackBird
    Reply

    Can we also please bring attention to how the interview caller curveball was handled. The caller publicly expressed his concerns on an interview where our local Ayahuasca hero, Nathan, was publicly trying to gain attention and customers in a field we have now established he knows little to nothing about, therefore endangering the uninformed listeners who may have been interested in a journey with him after hearing what he had to say. The caller was publicly calling him out on his bullshit and all Gareth could do was gang up against the caller, not offer him much opportunity to speak, and basically offer the on air equivalent of “guys, you should take this outside”. Listen Cliff, it is your responsibility as a radio host to ensure that the public hears the truth, no matter what that may be. And to remain neutral. There is more than enough time and space to defend your buddy’s tiny little ego when it is in fact, taken outside. Radio platform is not the place.

    Additionally, Nathan either couldn’t answer his questions coherently or came up with the groundbreaking comeback of the year: “now you’re being an asshole”. Insulting someone who raises concerns and questions your methods of work (which will happen in any field) is an infantile method of defence, and just downright shows that he doesn’t have much of a leg to stand on.

    Hopefully people will have learned from this interview to practice discretion when choosing their facilitator to work with, and not just accept something at face value.

  • Chantel Carter
    Reply

    WOW!!!! It astounds me, the arrogance of people who are so called medicine people!!! GENOCIDE, just happened here. SHAMEFUL. Let me break it down: what is Genocide? DEHUMANIZING another. Did everyone commenting on this page do just that? Yes. Therefore it’s GENOCIDE!!!!

    Not once did Nathan criticize any one of you. He actually even defended a fellow plant worker, or SHAMAN as you are all so quick to call yourselves.

    Have I worked with Ayahuasca? Yes. Many journeys, many years and everyday. With Nathan? Yes!!! Has it been hard. Fuck yes!!! Do I blame anyone? NO. Nathan has held a deeply integrous and safe space of unconditional love for me in some VERY dark places. I integrated as soon as I accepted and stopped resisting. Also, most importantly, realized I am my own healer. It is arrogant to believe that as a shaman you heal. Shamans (that word has become such poison in our work)……

    Nathan is authentic in EVERY way. He was called to be who he is and soon he will lead the shattering of all shamanic EGO!! He is the only one who is equipped to do this, because of who he is and how he has gone about his medicine work.

    I d like to add: WENDY was my sister’s best friend, my daughter’s Au pair and close friend of mine. My sister and I had to assist at the scene of her suicide. My sister had to identify her body. The suicide note was addressed to 2 people, one of them was my sister. NATHAN and AYAHUASCA had NOTHING to do with her suicide.

    So before you ALL (and you have been seen AL) jump on this destructive and horribly unconscious band wagon, just STOP and A) get your facts straight and B) look at yourselves and the genocide you are all so guilty of for the sake of being right!!!

    I am astounded by the Arrogance!!!!

    • I just cannot believe
      Reply

      I typed out a full response last night to your rant, but it seems that Nathan has got his buddies to censor any of the comments not going against him. You should ask yourself, deeply, and honestly. If his work is beyond reproach; why would they censor replies and comments that aren’t for him. I’m not even sure this one will go through, but let us see…

    • I just cannot believe
      Reply

      You speak of genocide, but have no idea what it means. Go ask Nathan, he is a genocide denialist. He’ll explain what it is and is not. To your other points. That “SHAMAN” he was defending, was another instant noodle shaman, who has lied about his training, claimed 20+ years experience in the field. When I know for a FACT, he is a con artist and a fraud. He has hurt substantially more people than Nathan, and is also shown to be put money before the safety of others. But they are one in the same. When they leave people broken, the excuses are the same. “I’ve never had anyone have issues before, it is all you” and shirks responsibility, because they have no idea what they are doing. The question the caller asked, was more to find out why he let her drink, if she was in such a bad way. I can’t confirm, but have it on good authority that Nathan doesn’t do in interviews of people’s mental state, so it was possible, the Ayahuasca and his lack of training was a factor.

      I’m taking it that you’ve never been to another practitioner and seen the difference. I know people that have experienced both sides, and been to one of his ceremonies. They won’t go back. But the psychonauts, drug seekers, yes-men and weak love his woo woo new age drivel. I’m also willing to bet, you’ve never seen someone get infested with entities, or develop schizophrenia from taking Ayahuasca given by a hack like Nathan? I have, it isn’t pretty. A trained shaman gets taught how to navigate these challenges, how to protect a space. And you lambasting Iggy for speaking out, well…If I was a server, and Nathan phoned me and asked me for the ingredients of the brew, and couldn’t even name the plants that are in the brew. It kinda points to a drug dealer looking to score stash and not a healer passionate about his craft. I would also take exception to him.

      What is astonishing, is the blind following he has. If he is so good and his work is so beyond reproach, no one would have a bad thing to say (never heard a bad thing about the shaman I work with) or if his work was so good, you yes-men wouldn’t come here trying to defend the indefensible. You’d just ignore it and carry on. (Testing, cause last night this comment was “moderated” i.e. read, censored. Which begs the question, why censor free speech?

  • I just cannot believe
    Reply

    So are all further comments going to be removed? I find it distasteful, for someone like Gareth Cliff, or his team to silence people’s views.Considering the strong views he has had in the past. Deleting my comments, is absolutely pathetic, to say the least.

  • Nihtiyana Veleva
    Reply

    My personal experience with Nathan has been loving and gentle. I have only ever participated in his ceremonies because I feel safe with him and they have been life changing and in some aspects,life saving for me.